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TOPIC: Did the Essenes consider themselves Jews?

Did the Essenes consider themselves Jews? 2 years 2 months ago #13055

  • charliemc
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Hi all,

This is a topic I've been wanting to address for awhile now. The short answer is yes, the long answer is quite different. Without going into great details now here is a brief explanation. The Essenes believed that they were the only branch of the Jews that was true to the faith. They considered the Jews in Jerusalem as being apostate and therefore not real Jews. If Yahshua were an Essene then He would have considered himself as from the only real Jewish line. The Essenes believed that they came from an unbroken line of Jews that Moses had sent out into the desert that lived and kept themselves separate from the rest of the world. Exodus 19:2-9
There Israel encamped before the mountain, 3 while Moses went up to God. The Lord called to him out of the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the people of Israel: 4 You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. 5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine; 6 and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel.”

7 So Moses came and called the elders of the people and set before them all these words that the Lord had commanded him. 8 All the people answered together and said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do.” And Moses reported the words of the people to the Lord. 9 And the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, I am coming to you in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with you, and may also believe you forever.”
I believe these were the Elders. Now look again.
21 And the Lord said to Moses, “Go down and warn the people, lest they break through to the Lord to look and many of them perish. 22 Also let the priests who come near to the Lord consecrate themselves, lest the Lord break out against them.” 23 And Moses said to the Lord, “The people cannot come up to Mount Sinai, for you yourself warned us, saying, ‘Set limits around the mountain and consecrate it.’” 24 And the Lord said to him, “Go down, and come up bringing Aaron with you. But do not let the priests and the people break through to come up to the Lord, lest he break out against them.” 25 So Moses went down to the people and told them.
Notice here that Aaron was to go back up the mountain with Moses. This is very important as it shows that Aaron was with Moses when he received the Word of the Lord. Why is this important, it is important because Aaron was with Moses and received the true commandments that were given to Moses and Aaron before they were written in stone and broken. Now look.
31 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “See, I have called by name Bezalel the son of Uri, son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, 3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with ability and intelligence, with knowledge and all craftsmanship, 4 to devise artistic designs, to work in gold, silver, and bronze, 5 in cutting stones for setting, and in carving wood, to work in every craft. 6 And behold, I have appointed with him Oholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan. And I have given to all able men ability, that they may make all that I have commanded you: 7 the tent of meeting, and the ark of the testimony, and the mercy seat that is on it, and all the furnishings of the tent, 8 the table and its utensils, and the pure lampstand with all its utensils, and the altar of incense, 9 and the altar of burnt offering with all its utensils, and the basin and its stand, 10 and the finely worked garments,[a] the holy garments for Aaron the priest and the garments of his sons, for their service as priests, 11 and the anointing oil and the fragrant incense for the Holy Place. According to all that I have commanded you, they shall do.”

The Sabbath
12 And the Lord said to Moses, 13 “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death. 16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever. 17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”

18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God..
Notice that there were two others who were filled with the Spirit of the Lord and Aaron of course. Now here is where it gets good. Look at the last line. These tablets were written with the finger of God. Aaron was with Moses when these were written and had these commandments in his heart and mind. And these were written by Elohim not Yahweh. You will have to discover this by looking at a restored name version. The main point is that these tablets were broken when Moses and Aaron came down from the mountain. Then Moses went back up and YHVH wrote the next set of tables which Moses brought back down. This second set was not written by Elohim. So, can see that we have two different sets of tablets written by two separate entities. The ones that were broken were lost except for those who can put the pieces back together. These are the inner secret laws. The second for those who would later be the ones called Jews in Jerusalem and are for the outward world. For more on this please go to:
groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/communions/c...tions/newtopic#_ftn1
Last Edit: 2 years 2 months ago by charliemc.
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The following user(s) said Thank You: sheraldo

Did the Essenes consider themselves Jews? 2 years 2 months ago #13056

  • sheraldo
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Charlie,

Super interesting... I am going to investigate this further... Thanks for the topic! It appears to make sense with what I've been "knowing" and how I've been living ...


Peace to you and yours,

Sheryl
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Did the Essenes consider themselves Jews? 2 years 2 months ago #13057

  • Molly
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Hi Charlie-
There's some interesting reading there.
Molly
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Did the Essenes consider themselves Jews? 2 years 2 months ago #13058

  • RhodaRose
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Good study Charlie :)
You say:
Notice that there were two others who were filled with the Spirit of the Lord ...

I see only one more ...
31 The Lord said to Moses,
2 “See, I have called by name Bezalel the son of Uri, son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah,
3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God,
- with ability and intelligence, with knowledge and all craftsmanship - ,
4 to devise artistic designs, to work in gold, silver, and bronze, 5 in cutting stones for setting, and in carving wood, to work in every craft.

6 And behold, I have appointed with him Oholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan...
- And I have given to all able men ability, that they may make all that I have commanded you: ...

It seems this Oholiab was to follow the lead of Bezalel - who was filled with the Spirit of God ...
... and all able men were "given the ability" to make ...

Bezalel was filled with the Spirit of God ... but the rest were just "able workers given the ability" to do the work assigned them ...

This might be nit-picking but may be important in the end ...


I See what you mean about "the first tablets" ... spoken to Moses and Aaron - but never read from these broken tablets ...

Wonder if this it where "and the stones cry out ..." comes in ? !! ;)

Luke 19:
39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

... just a thought ...

Let me go over what you have written more ... and study - to show myself approved :)

Thank You Charlie for this topic for study :cheer: Rhoda
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Did the Essenes consider themselves Jews? 2 years 2 months ago #13059

  • charliemc
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Hi all!

Thanks Molly, and sheraldo. There is a lot of good reading there. I'm still just learning about this site. I have followed Gott for a number of years but this site is new to me and seems to have updated material from her. I'm not sure that Iesus was a fictional person as she says, but, I do believe in her theory that these weren't poor, but, rather the top of their society.

Rhoda,

You make a good point. I understand you and you might be right. It would seem this way at first glance of this in the English translation. I was really going by the fact that they were both ordained by G-D.
In the Hebrew the word used in Exodus 31:2 is the word "quara" and is qual perfect. Here is what it means in Hebrew.
to call, call out, recite, read, cry out, proclaim
(Qal)
to call, cry, utter a loud sound
to call unto, cry (for help), call (with name of God)
to proclaim
to read aloud, read (to oneself), read
to summon, invite, call for, call and commission, appoint, call and endow
to call, name, give name to, call by
The word used in 6 translated as "appointed" is the Hebrew word "nathan", it is also qual perfect and has the following meanings.
to give, put, set
(Qal)
to give, bestow, grant, permit, ascribe, employ, devote, consecrate, dedicate, pay wages, sell, exchange, lend, commit, entrust, give over, deliver up, yield produce, occasion, produce, requite to, report, mention, utter, stretch out, extend
to put, set, put on, put upon, set, appoint, assign, designate
to make, constitute
If we look at all these meanings we eventually come down to, "utter, stretch out, extend." This would seem to suggest that G-d also called him and stretched out, extended the same blessings. However, for those who were wise hearted " hearts of all that are wise hearted", He gave only wisdom. To Bezaleel he gave,
And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,
And, if you buy into my argument by extension, the same was given to Aholiab.

So, I think your point is a good one but, I'm still sticking with my original concept that this man recieved the same blessings.
Thanks for nit-picking, it always makes a difference. :)
Last Edit: 2 years 2 months ago by charliemc.
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Did the Essenes consider themselves Jews? 2 years 2 months ago #13060

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Just for other things to consider, I have found over ample evidence in the last few years that Eashoa was one of the Essene's who wandered their area's as depicted in the scrolls. He may have been the Teacher of Righteousness? I believe Gott's posts at her site as well. The wealthy actors may have been acting out scripts or legends that they had heard about. This makes sense to me and I don't see any reason to believe this man didn't exist. The codes in the Gospels however are very intriguing to say the least. However, as one who has played around with interpretations I know that one has to look at a lot of evidence. She is a great biblical historian and deserves credit for what she is doing. That doesn't mean that she is 100% right all the time. All one has to do is to look at all the similarities in the heathen stories that come from the Mithra accounts and also know, that he was a Roman God worshiped in private by the Roman elite, to understand what scripts these actors were wanting the public to follow. What, I think we will discover is, that there is indeed a fictional Jesus and a real Eashoa. What I think is needed here is to search in both directions.

Thanks,

Charlie
Last Edit: 2 years 2 months ago by charliemc.
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